‘Part of something immense’: Anjali Goswami on humanity’s place in time – What I Believe podcast

The latest episode of Humanists UK’s podcast What I Believe features palaeobiologist and Humanists UK patron, Professor Anjali Goswami, a Research Leader in paleobiology and Dean of postgraduate education at the Natural History Museum, and the Chief Scientific Adviser at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. 

The podcast explores the beliefs and values of well-known humanists – campaigners, artists, writers, and entertainers who are ‘good without gods’.

In a thoughtful discussion with Humanists UK Chief Executive, Andrew Copson, Professor Goswami shares her unique journey into palaeobiology – the study of life through deep time. Unlike many in her field, her fascination began not with dinosaurs, but with a profound connection to living animals, sparked by an early memory of seeing a tiger in the wild in India:

‘So I actually have a really unusual trajectory, because I am not one of those people that was obsessed with dinosaurs when I was a kid. I actually came to palaeobiology through a really indirect route, which is because I’ve always loved animals, my fascination with the history of life and with life on Earth today… My earliest memory is seeing a tiger in the wild and just being completely amazed by this beautiful animal… that really set me down this path of really being interested in animals, their environment, how those different features evolve, how they’re suited for different environments. I always thought I would work on wildlife behaviour, wildlife biology, conservation and when I was at university, I took an eight week field class out in Wyoming – I signed up for it solely because it was eight weeks of hiking, and I didn’t care what they were teaching, but ended up being geology. I didn’t know anything about geology. I didn’t really care about rocks, if I’m honest at the time, but I like hiking, and one of the instructors in the course was a palaeontologist, and it was there that I realised that all the things that I think is so interesting about the world around us and about life on Earth is just a million times more so when you add millions of years into the picture.’

With unique insight into the evolution of life, Professor Goswami also shares her belief in humanity’s interconnectedness with the world:

‘As somebody who thinks about the evolution of different organisms, it’s very straightforward for me to see humans as part of this chain of descent and this piece within the larger ecosystem.

I think a palaeontologist can have really unusual views about the world and about the place of humans in the world, because we see ourselves as part of this larger picture, and because we’re also used to thinking about time as millions of years… hundreds of millions of years… billions of years. It gives you a very different sense of perspective on your species, which has been around for not terribly long, compared to certainly some of the other things that you that you are working on, and also because you get a sense for how quickly things change, and scales of changes that happen over 1000s, to millions, to billions, of years. So it gives you a strange perspective about your own kind of existence compared to somebody who just thinks about humans and may think ‘This is a super special species that is unlike everything else.’

‘It makes me feel really special and very lucky that I get to be alive and get to be one of these organisms that is part of this unbroken chain of descent that goes back, you know, you know, certainly a billion years, probably more than more than that. It doesn’t make me feel small, it makes me feel grateful to be part of something immense, and that, I think, makes me feel very connected to the world around me.‘ 

Referring to current climate and biodiversity crises, Anjali speaks of the need to move away from ‘social nihilism’ and ‘conformity’ – ‘the instrument of controlling people, limiting ideas, and making everybody think the same thing’:

‘I think that people who don’t value different opinions and surround themselves with people with the exact same ideas aren’t really interested in solutions for the problems that actually affect people around the world and other forms of life around the world. They’re looking at really rapid solutions just for themselves. They’re thinking about their bank balance next year. I don’t think they feel any sense of connectedness with anything, or anyone, and so the past is irrelevant.’ 

‘What I would like to see people doing – and this is obviously a very humanist perspective – is to think for themselves. Talk to people that don’t agree with you, look for other perspectives, and take a second to come up with your own thoughts about something. Don’t be so tightly coordinated with everybody else that you’re just all moving en masse because we know that won’t move us in the right direction.’

Chief Executive of Humanists UK, Andrew Copson, commented:

‘Professor Anjali Goswami’s insights beautifully articulate the humanist perspective on our place in the universe and our responsibilities to each other and the planet. Her blend of scientific rigour and profound appreciation for life truly embodies the humanist sentiment – ‘Think for yourself, act for everyone’. 

What I Believe is a podcast exploring the values, beliefs, and worldviews of non-religious people in the public eye. Previous guests include Sandi Toksvig, Tim Minchin, Alice Roberts, and Jim Al-Khalili. It is chaired by Humanists UK’s Chief Executive Andrew Copson.

Listeners are encouraged to tune in and subscribe to the podcast for a unique insight into the varied life stories and perspectives of humanists, whose view of life is shaped by reason, compassion, and evidence. What I Believe is available on all major podcast platforms, with new episodes released every Thursday.