‘Liberalism isn’t about promising utopia’: Ian Dunt on What I Believe podcast

In a timely and thought-provoking discussion, political commentator and bestselling author Ian Dunt has offered a compelling defence of liberalism on the latest episode of Humanists UK’s What I Believe podcast. Speaking with host Andrew Copson, he lays bare liberalism’s core tenets, arguing for its enduring role in navigating the complexities of the modern world.

What I Believe examines the beliefs and values of well-known humanists – campaigners, artists, writers, and entertainers, who are ‘good without gods’. Asked by host Andrew Copson about his early beliefs, Ian reflects on his own past attraction to Christianity and Marxism in his teenage years and early 20s, He acknowledges the human desire for straightforward solutions to complex problems and the need for ‘goodies and baddies’:

‘I think we need black and white answers. And I say that as someone who was that way myself. Most of my early years were desperately searching for sentences – you could just say a sentence, and it’s the solution to all of your problems, your existential doubts, your emotional frustrations, and maybe your loneliness as well. I had it with Christianity, and I had it with Marxism too (I was pretty aggressive with those things)… And so now, I feel like I have some access to the emotional space that people have when they have a very simplistic political and ideological and doctrinal viewpoint. But also more than that, I think when you see people being seduced by conspiracy theories, what they’re really saying is just ’Tell me a simple story for why all these complex things are happening’. Ideally, that story should have ‘goodies and baddies’ in it somewhere, and I should hopefully be on the side of the ‘goodie.’’

Asked by host Andrew Copson why he is a liberal, Ian Dunt explains:

‘Liberalism is really the only political philosophy that will sit there and tell you the truth, which is that it’s not ever going to be okay. It’s never going to be alright. Humans have something innately conflictual about them. They believe in different things. They have different bundles of values. They’re different material conditions. And our job isn’t to promise Utopia… It’s just to try and soothe the edges of human conflict, to try and make it a little bit more moderate, a little bit calmer, a little bit more generous, a little bit less violent, less aggressive, less black and white. That attitude is never something that people want to man the barricades for, but it is, as it happens, a true appraisal of human affairs and the way that we can actually improve people’s lives.‘

Iant also challenges the perception of liberalism as a cold, individualistic philosophy, emphasising its inherent warmth and capacity to care for every individual, regardless of their background. He says:

‘I think that there is a genuine warmth in liberalism that is under discussed and much more radical and widespread than you get with any other political ideology because of the notion of the individual. The individual sounds like a really cold thing – this atomised unit that exists irrespective of society, and that’s all liberalism cares about. We care about the freedom of the individual. We don’t care about anything else. We don’t care about your race or your country or your religion or any of the other imaginary things that people have created to give themselves a sense of belonging. However, because we don’t, we’re able to care about every single individual. 

We don’t have to be sucked into the tribal groupings where you’re encouraged – whether it’s conservatives on the one hand or radical progressives on the other – to go ‘Care about this group because of the color of their skin, because of their class, because of the country that they’re born into’. We care about everyone, and that aspect of it, that warmth, the ease of compassion that it allows you without any kind of ideological blockage, I think, does give you a sense of satisfaction.’

Chief Executive of Humanists UK, Andrew Copson, commented:

‘As always, chatting with Ian Dunt for What I Believe was both fun and thought-provoking! His ability to articulate the warmth and radical inclusivity of liberalism is something I believe many will find impactful.’

What I Believe is a podcast exploring the values, beliefs, and worldviews of non-religious people in the public eye. Previous guests include Sandi Toksvig, Tim Minchin, Alice Roberts, and Jim Al-Khalili. It is chaired by Humanists UK’s Chief Executive Andrew Copson.

Listeners are encouraged to tune in and subscribe to the podcast for a unique insight into the varied life stories and perspectives of humanists, whose view of life is shaped by reason, compassion, and evidence. What I Believe is available on all major podcast platforms, with new episodes released every Thursday.